Where does Jesus say that he came as a ransom for all?

[balaji]

I need answer all from only jesus dialogues. Jesus said i come to give my life as ransom for many ( MANY) . Same jesus said that he  came to give life to his sheep's ( apart from his disciple's also ). How can we prove that jesus came to a ransom for whole adamic generation. I need answer from alone jesus word but not from letter's of paul or etc because i need confirmation from jesus word

[Broken2]

When you receive the words of the Apostles you receive the words of the Lord, because they are authorized to speak in his name.

Our Lord’s own words,

“He that receives you receives me, and he that receives me receives him that sent me”. (Matt 10:40)

The reverse would likewise apply here, viz. “He that rejects you rejects me, and he that rejects me rejects him that sent me”.

Elsewhere when speaking to Peter and the rest of his disciples our Lord once again reinterated this fact when he stated, “I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.” (Matt 16:19)

“Binding and loosing was a common form of expression in those days to indicate forbidding and permitting. Respecting the apostles alone, we have the assurance that whatever they forbade or allowed was under heavenly guidance and sanction. If therefore they bound certain doctrines and teachings, we must know that those are bound and firmly established in heaven.”

[Dupin]

Dear Balaji:

I'm happy to answer the question.  Jesus' words to that effect are recorded in two places:

" even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Matt. 20:28

"For the Son of man also came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many."  Mk. 10:45

Both are records of the same occasion where he spoke to his disciples.  However, WV has given a good reason why we can accept what the apostles wrote for us.  They were all taught directly by Jesus, including Paul who received his instruction from the resurrected Christ.  So we can trust their words on the subject.

Peace friend

Dupin

[balaji]

Thats Dupin. But I already stated. Jesus saying word ransom for many and  laying down life for my sheep's. I need answer for christ saying that he came to die for whole humanity. Isaiah 53 also stating that jesus died for certain group.

[Dupin]

Dear Balaji:

As noted by WV we really get that from the writings of the Apostles, which are themselves scripture.  They unequivocally state that he died for "all."  So how do we find the harmony?  It's simple.  Jesus releases all from Adamic death at the due time.  Yet not everybody will avail themselves of that provision fully, they will die.  So in the long run his sacrifice only fully benefits "many" instead of all.  That's how our understanding of God's differs from that of the Universalists on the matter.

Dupin

[balaji]

I need scriptures based answer.

[RR]

I need scriptures based answer.

You were given scriptures earlier, but it seems they do not suffice, as you want specific scriptures from specific places.

[WildernessVoice]

I need answer from alone jesus word but not from letter's of paul or etc because i need confirmation from jesus word

Why do you want to discard the entire scriptural testimony provided by God, except for the words of Jesus?  Matt. 16:19 has already been quoted as Jesus' own words giving authority to the Apostles as guides and teachers for the Church.

You're asking for a scripture that you already know doesn't exist.  You seem to want the scriptures to say it the way you want to hear it before you will believe.  It is not our position to demand from the scriptures what they cannot give.  We have to harmonize the scriptures in order to understand what they teach.  You're trying to force the scriptures to fit, and that won't work.

WV

[balaji]

I thought it was said by jesus but i didn't found anywhere. Many friends asking Evidence from jesus direct statement.

[WildernessVoice]

I thought it was said by jesus but i didn't found anywhere. Many friends asking Evidence from jesus direct statement.

That is an unreasonable request, and one which demonstrates the questioner knows little about the Bible.

WV

[Broken2]

I thought it was said by jesus but i didn't found anywhere. Many friends asking Evidence from jesus direct statement.

That is an unreasonable request, and one which demonstrates the questioner knows little about the Bible.

WV

It also shows a lack of belief and faith in the Word of God.

God is the author of the Bible which was written by His amanuenses, as moved by His Holy Spirit: the Old Testament written by selected and divinely inspired Prophets, and the New Testament written by selected and divinely inspired Apostles.

“Know this first that no prophecy of Scripture is of any private interpretation, for prophecy never came by the will of man, but holy men of God spoke as they were moved by the Holy Spirit.” (2 Pet 1:20, 21)

“This passage asserts that all prophecy of Scripture is divinely inspired, and that the utterances of the prophets are not the mere utterances of men—of human origin, of private interpretation—but are of God. Consequently, in 2 Peter 1:19 the Apostle Peter provides assurance that the Bible is “a more sure word of prophecy.”

We fear for you our young brother as we feel some are attempting although probably not on purpose to stumble your faith. Their lack in faith in God and in his word they would wish upon you that you too should join their ranks among those lacking a “full assurance of faith” (Heb 10:22).

“But you must continue in the things which you have learned and been assured of, knowing from whom you have learned them, and that from childhood you have known the Holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.” (2 Tim 3:14-17)

[balaji]

Ok sir thanks. May be it fit ? Jesus this is real bread which come from heaven. And i am giving my body for life to world.

[Dupin]

Dear friend Balaji:

I'm in contact with some Brethren over in India.  As a result I have heard a few of the things going on over there.   In spite of his silence I wouldn't be surprised if Rolando knows a bit as well since we have some of the same contacts over there.

What some of the other brethren here may not know, is that there are some brethren over there who are rejecting CTR's teachings, even to the point that some have embraced the trinity doctrine and are trying to spread it among the brethren.  They, or others are also going down some strange roads and are causing many to have some problems standing up for trtuh.  for instance they make demands which are sometimes impossible to meet, such as the one you're up against which appears to be a rejection of the inspired words of the Apostles.  This has made it where many of the India brethren are insisting in forums that one only use God's word instead of the Pastor because of having to deal with folks like that.

If you're trying to answer one who is rejecting the testimony of the Apostles on this question, then insist, as Paul did that, "All scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, reproving, and setting things straight..." (2 Tim. 3:16,17)  If they cannot accept the witness of ALL the scriptures together, then they are headed down the wrong track, one you don't want to be on.

I don't mind it if somebody wants me to explain myself from the scriptures only.  although i study CTR's writings if I can't explain it from the scriptures then I'm not a student of God's word.  another post will follow...

[Dupin]

Okay my dear friend,

We've exteablished that Jesus did say that he would die for "many."  so we agree on that.  So where do we get the idea that he dies for all?  The scripture we primarily rely on is from Paul's first letter to the young man Timothy.  The second chapter provides the basis for what we belive on the matter.   After telling timothy to pray on behalf of all, including kings, he tells him that is because it is his will that "all men to be saved, and to come unto the knowledge of the truth." (vs. 4)  He explains that it is his will in the very next verses because:

(1Ti 2:5)  For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

(1Ti 2:6)  Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Notice the Apostle explains that Jesus gave himself as a ransom, "for all."  Not some, all.  That is consistent with Jesus' words because "many" is a bit ambiguos and can include all.  Paul affirms his testimony next with the following:

(1Ti 2:7)  Whereunto I am ordained a preacher, and an apostle, (I speak the truth in Christ, and lie not;) a teacher of the Gentiles in faith and verity.

So Paul affirms he is telling the truth.  Let's now go to the Revelation Jesus was empowered by God to give to John.  In the twentieth chapter we are told concerning the Resurrection:

(Rev 20:13)  And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

Note how complete the resurrection is, the sea, death and hell all give up their dead.  That covers everybody without exception.  True, we are told in the very next verse that they are judged and some are committed to the second death, but the point is that Jesus sacrifice saves all from Ademic death.  Yet it doesn't save all for eternity as some fail the judgement.  Either way Jesus' words are true, as are the Apostle Paul's.  Jesus is taking the long view when he speaks, while Paul is holding out the hope for all in the grave.  If you critics there can't handle the witness of the entire scriptural record, you might want to consider that you're wasting your time disputing them.

If, on the other hand, they are raising doubts in your mind, then please keep on talking to us.  We'll try to give you sound reasoning out of the bible.

Dupin
 

[Broken2]

Question: In respects to the world of mankind which comes first, knowledge of the truth (specifically the knowledge of man’s true condition and need for a savior) or salvation? Note God’s answer in 1 Tim 2:3, 4

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved AND to come to the knowledge of the truth”.

Now if it be God’s will that ALL men should be saved first (from the Adamic curse), and then following this to come to an accurate knowledge of the truth then it is apparent that whether or not the individual firsts recognized his sinful condition has no effect upon whether or not he shall reap the benefits of the ransom.

“Therefore, as through one man’s offense judgment (i.e. the sentence or curse) came to all men (extensively) resulting in condemnation… (All fall short of the glory of God, there is none righteous, no not one) even so through one man’s righteous act (the Man Christ Jesus who gave his life a ransom for all) the free gift (redemption from the Adamic curse) came to all men (co-extensively) resulting in (the sentence of) justification of life.” (Rom 5:18)

That is to say just as the original sentence came upon ALL mankind irregardless to their own personal preferences (i.e. we were born in sin), so too the “free gift”, salvation from the Adamic curse (secured through the ransom) comes to ALL mankind once again irregardless to their own preferences; it is the grace (unmerited favor) of God.

Now with this in mind 1 Tim 2:3-6 should become all the more clear to us.

“For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior; who will have (unconditionally) ALL MEN to be saved (from the original Adamic curse), and to come unto an accurate knowledge of the truth. For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom FOR ALL, to be testified in due time.”

Here is a salvation, which is clearly unconditional and depends alone on the will of God; it is NOT however an eternal salvation, merely a salvation or redemption from the original Adamic curse, which resides upon ALL.

The right to life provided by the ransom sacrifice of Christ once understood is obtainable only upon the basis of acceptance and obedience.