geting baptised is it important for life everlasting

[serene searcher]

so lets say some one feels they are one of the heavenly class and they want to be concercrated or somthing then baptised by water cos its a must how do they go about that then if theres no other bible students were they live and they only have themselfs so who does it im not understanding this very well , in my opinion jesus was saying all must get baptiesed not just the ones he calls to heaven,
all kinds of people in them days were geting baptised just going along being baptised by john then by the disiples,also what if ur not a bible student u know belonging to any group and ur on ur own but u thibk ur one of the anointed whast then,are u saying that u have to be a bible student member or what ever to be baptised,and they are the only true people of god tell me please im reading through scriptures im trying to understand, also does beiung one ofthe ones who stays on earth mean im one of the unbeleivers so i stay with the rest cos im not good enough for heaven, cos im geting a vibe that if ur not oner of the ones for heaven then ur classed as one of the ubeleivers of the world like all the rest and i am a beleiver and i do want to do what jehovah wants me to and i feel some times that i dont know were i should be, the otherday i was geting the thoughts that i want to go heaven iv been geting them all my life but when i met the jws they said i cant so i stoped thinking it, but i still think im not good enough and il fall short and not make it,im just not good enough for that, i fel i need to change my life more and i find it to hard to with my big family i also feel i wont even get to live on paradise earth as im not good enough i dont feel that every one gets another go of it i feel god is choosing aqnd that not everyone is going to get a chance, i have a big prob that i need to be more gentle  patient mild temperd, i get very easly mad with my kids and want to be able to chsnge that im deff not good enough,i know iv gone totaly off subject but i feel im not going to be anywere but dead,and i want to go heaven.

[bro tom]

Dear SS,
I answered a similar post from you when you first joined the forum.  You have been with us for a while now, and I think you will be better able to grasp what I am saying this time.  Sometimes we need time for ideas to work through the obstacles established by our old belief system.  

The Baptism in Christ is specifically a response to a high call to serve as Christ's body.  To die with Christ (represented by being buried... dunked in the water), and rising to a spiritual resurrection (receiving the spirit-begetal).  The Old Man has died and the New Creation has begun.  This is something that can not be shared or experienced by anyone other than those who become joint heirs with Christ.  This is the true consecration, symbolized by the water.  

The Gospel Age is for this very purpose... to complete Christ; with Jesus being Christ's head, the body requires 144,000 faithful.  Once Christ's body is complete, then that class of spiritual sympathetic priests will be ready to bless the rest of mankind by resurrecting them and helping them to achieve perfection in Christ's earthly kingdom.  This will be time for the world to consecrate themselves completely to God, that they might become as they were originally created... as Adam was.  

You say you are not good enough to be of the spiritual class?  Only Jesus was.  That is why we need Christ's Ransom.  Christ is good enough, and through HIS goodness we find grace.  It is through grace, not goodness that we are brought in.  We are asked only to strive toward a Christlike character... asking forgiveness when we fail.  It is an attitude of repentance and desire to be what God would have us become.  The New Creation that we develop over time is a result of God's spirit, not our own worthiness.

Having said this, we are also warned to "count the cost".  Are you willing to give God all?  Are you willing to die and suffer with Jesus?  Your will and desires to die, and to take up the cross for your Lord?  This is not about your being good, but about your giving up your worldly hopes and dreams, allowing God to replace them with his will for your life.  If you have a high calling, then be assured that you are capable.  But make sure that you are willing.

Bro Tom

[Broken2]

My Sister,

I note you tend to rely on your feelings a lot, feelings are fickle and not to be trusted; they tend to change from day to day, one day you feel happy and content the next disillusioned and lost, don’t rely on feelings, trust only in the truth, the Lord’s Word. Now as to your thoughts and questions on baptism I believe most of these issues have been covered by the brethren in the preceding posts however let us take a look at your present remarks. First of all it was not “all kinds of people” who were being baptized by John, but only the Jews, and of these only those of a truly repented heart, those who desired to come back into compliance with the covenant made by their forefathers with the LORD.

Now your opening remark, “let’s say some one feels they are one of the heavenly class and they want to be consecrated or something” this statement speaks for itself it reveals that presently you are not fully sure what a full consecration to the Lord actually means and/or entails therefore I would suggest first that you return to your studies on this particular subject, before concerning yourself so much with baptism, as has been said before, consecration precedes baptism.

Your next question, I had to adjust it a bit as I was not sure exactly what you were saying I hope I got it right though,

You asked: what if you’re not a bible student and you don’t belong to any group and you’re on your own but you think your one of the anointed, what then, are you saying that you have to be a bible student member or whatever to be baptized, and that they are the only true people of god?

If one honestly believes they have received the call, whether they reside in Babylon or in the wilderness condition, whether Bible Student, JW, Baptist, Catholic, or what have you, after having properly taken the time to grasps exactly what the terms of this call entails (i.e. counting the cost), and having accepted those terms by means of a full consecration (surrender) to the Lord then it is only natural that one should desire to follow in the Masters footsteps who after fully surrendering himself to the Father and to his will (consecrating himself) went forth and was baptized in water, setting forth an example for us to follow, not that water baptism in itself had anything physically to do with his consecration.

“Baptism into death (his death) is the real baptism for the Church (Rom 6:3), as it was the real baptism for our Lord; water baptism is only the symbol, or picture of it to us, as it was to him”.

Now let’s say an individual were fully consecrated and wished to symbolize this consecration through the symbol (water baptism), but as you asked, “How do they go about it then if there’s no other bible students where they live and they only have themselves, so who does it?”

First of all it’s not a requirement that bible student baptize another bible student no more than it is required that a consecrated individual baptize another consecrated individual. As the Pastor so states, “If no such consecrated person could be found convenient for the service of the symbol, we can conceive of no sound objection that could be raised to its performance by an unconsecrated believer, or even by a worldly person, an unbeliever; because the real contract is between the Lord and the individual consecrating himself; and as the water baptism is not the real one, but merely a picture, so the administrator is not the Lord, but merely a man, and whether a good or a bad man he would act merely as a representative for the convenience and service of the immersed one.” “It is far better to see and enjoy the real baptism while blind to the symbol, than it would be to see the symbol and be blind to the reality.” (F 450, 455)

As to the second part of your question, i.e. “are you saying that bible students are the only true people of god?”

Heavens no! No true Bible Student would be so bold as to suggest such a thing.

You ask, does being one of the ones who stays on earth mean I’m one of the unbelievers so I stay with the rest because I’m not good enough for heaven, because I’m getting a vibe that if you’re not one of the ones for heaven then your classed as one of the unbelievers of the world like all the rest and I am a believer and I do want to do what Jehovah wants me to and I feel some times that I don’t know where I should be.

According to the Scriptures there are but two classes the just and the unjust, i.e. the justified and the unjustified, the only ones presently justified are those who have received of the imputation of the righteousness of Christ, the fully consecrated, but as sure as there is to be a resurrection of the just, just so too there is to be a resurrection of the unjust (John 5:28, 29), and so there is hope for all.

As for being, good enough, no one is “good enough for heaven”, no one is good enough for earthly paradise, it is all of God’s grace (unmerited favor) that we should reap life anywhere.

You state, I also feel I won’t even get to live on paradise earth as I’m not good enough I don’t feel that everyone gets another go of it I feel god is choosing and that not everyone is going to get a chance.

Once again my dear sister you are relying far too much upon your feelings then upon the Word of God, and until you are ready to accept the Word of the Lord that ALL, and that includes you will be given a chance for everlasting life and happiness you will be agitated disillusioned, restless.

What saith the Lord with regards to this?  

“Whom will he teach knowledge? And whom will he make to understand the message (the plan of redemption and salvation for ALL)?

Why to those who will heed his word, who will study it that they might comprehend and understand it, applying it to their lives

“This is the rest with which you may cause the weary (the disenchanted) to rest, and this is the refreshing, but alas many will not hear (heed).”  (Isa 28:9, 12)

Fear not my sister you are among friends here do not be dismayed, it is our wish that you too should find this rest, this refreshing that your hearts longing might be fully satisfied.

Your servant, Brother John  

[balaji]

I am happy that return of sir john, why not we take baptism in jesus christ name is symbol baptism in his death because if anybody putting him water that was meaning jesus died, same way the person who give baptism will rose us from water and why not it is symbol of christ resurrection, i thought st paul had this feelings in baptism in roman chapter

[Broken2]

You are correct Balaji water baptism is a symbol of death (going beneath the water representing our death), and of our resurrection (our rising from the waters). Water is simply the best way to exemplify this, obviously we could not preform this example in the actual ground burying the individual in the grave.   

[balaji]

You are correct sir, we are tasting it while on we live, so burial system never compared this, even bible also doesn't compared it

[serene searcher]

thankyou for ur replies, i do sruggle with gaining the knowlage from the scriptures and understanding it all but being on here with you lot is helping me alot.

[RR]

so lets say some one feels they are one of the heavenly class and they want to be concercrated or somthing then baptised by water cos its a must how do they go about that then if theres no other bible students were they live and they only have themselfs so who does it im not understanding this very well...

Well my dear, where there is a will, there is a way. There have been individuals on this very forum who found the Truth of God's plan of salvation, but were isolated. We found a way to get them immeresed if that was their desire.

RR

[derowr]

The Life received is that which bears witness to one's regeneration!

Water immersion, the baptism of repentance, was for the natural jews who were under the authority of the torah given Moses, and in this day and age there are no longer any natural jews, only pretenders! For truly "he is a Jew who is one inwardly", and the circumcision they received was of The Spirit, in their heart, mind and soul, not the flesh!

And the Spiritual Jew(The Messiah was such while in the flesh) clearly see's the need to take heed unto The Call of The ONE and ONLY TRUE GOD(HE WHO IS SPIRIT) and FATHER(CREATOR) of ALL(Messiah inclusive) to:

"Come Out of her, MY people!"

So it is they no longer have their portion in the systems that are of this wicked, evil world, and especially it's systems of religion!

For multilplied millions have been killed and enslaved in the name of the god(s) of this, or that religion ;-(

And because of religion "The Way of Truth is evil spoken of".......

At least the Jehovah Witness's do not have their portion in the natural killing, and realize there is but "ONE GOD, Father of ALL", however, their religious dogma has enslaved millions!

For The Faithful will not create a religion, for The Faithful ARE Family.......

The Family of "Our Father and GOD", "of WHOM the whole Family in Heaven and ON EARTH is named"!

So it is that the brethren of The Messiah choose to remain but "aliens and pilgrims while on the earth" for they have realized that their "citizenship is in Heaven" and that soon, and very soon, they will be taken Home, Home at last.......

Till then:

Father Help!       and HE does.......

Peace, in spite of the dis-ease(no-peace) that is of this wicked world, for "the WHOLE(not just a portion) world is under the control of the evil one" indeed and Truth....... francis

[balaji]

Jesus ordered. So it is must for church. But his blood paid for all. That is another issue for forgiveness and eternal life

[WildernessVoice]

The Life received is that which bears witness to one's regeneration!

Water immersion, the baptism of repentance, was for the natural jews who were under the authority of the torah given Moses, and in this day and age there are no longer any natural jews, only pretenders! For truly "he is a Jew who is one inwardly", and the circumcision they received was of The Spirit, in their heart, mind and soul, not the flesh!

While it is true that baptism for remission of sins was for the Jew only, it is also true that Jesus directed his disciples to baptize all believers into Christ in the name of the Father, the Son and the holy Spirit. 

The baptism into Christ is not a baptism for remission of sins.  Baptism for the Christian is an outward symbol which demonstrates the committment which the individual has already made with Jehovah through full consecration. 

WV